tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post7239498199951649736..comments2023-05-31T03:25:43.316-04:00Comments on Surfin the Shidduch Scene: the D wordSingle on the Scenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848405298234990241noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-55242671768213211222012-06-17T10:35:39.179-04:002012-06-17T10:35:39.179-04:00Although I see some benefits to delaying getting p...Although I see some benefits to delaying getting pregnant until after the couple have had more time to solidify their marriage, on some level this seems like a bandage solution. Rather than taking a 6 month "trial run" at marriage, why not date for longer periods of time and actually try getting to know each other a bit better?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-64688549467328822552012-03-28T13:44:29.008-04:002012-03-28T13:44:29.008-04:00Rach-as a marriage counselor, perhaps you have som...Rach-as a marriage counselor, perhaps you have some advise/insight for us singles reading & posting on this site. I'm sure with your experience & knowledge in working with couples, you can help us in our dating process to understand a bit about the upcoming situation...Single on the Scenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04848405298234990241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-36719435016020373042012-03-28T11:37:21.604-04:002012-03-28T11:37:21.604-04:00The newest OU magazine has an article that talks a...The newest OU magazine has an article that talks about this (I haven't read it yet, but ASoG did and told me about it). One of the rabbis/counselors asked for a response said she recommends 6 months of premarital therapy and 6 months of couple's counseling after the wedding. That makes a heckuva lot of sense.<br /><br />I've also seen a number of friends/people my age divorce, a few with kids unfortunately. That's the biggest reason to use birth control for the beginning of marriage, in addition to making sure that the couple can really build their lives together, the worst thing is to involve a child who will permanently be affected by this and permanently link the divorced couple together for the duration of their lives.<br /><br />One Rabbi at YU is a proponent of the 6-month model, giving a heter for 6 months and then requiring the couple to visit him and discuss how they're doing and if they're ready or not. If the couple is having issues, he won't hesitate to continue the heter. Having a child, which adds mountains of stress to an already stressful transition of becoming a married couple, does not in any way make the process easier.<br /><br />I'm hoping to write a post about this sort of thing in the near future. It's very important that people learn to not be naive about potential red flags that could lead to divorce.<br /><br />One thing I wonder about is how still-single daters approach dating divorced people. There is a whole mess of baggage involved there - the divorced person getting over the first spouse, the new spouse being concerned that he/she isn't quite replacing the first spouse well enough, etc.<br /><br />What do you think about that?Shades of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733139852424935591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-10151896224441043362012-03-27T12:09:15.110-04:002012-03-27T12:09:15.110-04:00It's interesting that the logic behind birth c...It's interesting that the logic behind birth control is that it would enable to people to essentially have a 'trial period' before deciding whether to make the relationship permanent. What if there's another dimension to it- that you could marry the right guy, but getting pregnant right away could bring on a stress to a marriage that is still so young and fragile, and then cause it derail? I'd like to look at this birth control shift as more of a positive thing; that you are just starting your life together and learning how to build your marriage. Is it so bad to wait a few months so that you can bring a child into a marriage where the parents are a strong unit? I think that marriage today is an endangered species, and there are philosophical, sociological, emotional, and financial reasons why. Thus, having some time to build a strong foundation can be helpful, so that when you do find out your're pregnant you can actually be excited, as opposed to feeling 'locked in'. <br /><br />With aldo respect to Devorah Leah Leopold, if there was an 'easy' way to solve this problem of divorce then I don't think it would still be going on- and even increasing. To think that one trip to a therapist to 'screen' your spouse will 'solve the problem' is not so simple. I have several friends who are divorced, all who were in therapy before getting married, and brought their fiances to session. Therapists are not psychics or mind-readers, and so of course these girls were not told by the therapist not to marry the guy. And that would be assuming that red flags came up at the session. Some of the worst husbands are the most charming men to the public. It's not very hard to fool a stranger for 45 minutes. And even if the therapist is concerned, it's not always the therapist's role to tell a client whether they should marry the guy. As a therapist myself, it's about helping clients be honest and clear-headed to figure out for themselves if the relationship is right for them. When I am in this situation, I direct the discussion to the real parts of the relationship and the true character of the guy (as opposed to the surface stuff relating to the engagement and weddinfg hoopla), and I hope and pray that the client will realize that something doesn't feel right. And they usually do. Not necessarily in that session, but they'll go home and come back the next week saying that they couldn't stop thinking about something we had realized together. <br /><br />Do I think that people should bring their fiances to therapy? Perhaps. Nothing wrong with it. But it sure ain't an easy solution. <br /><br />Bottom line: Make sure that you have a few people in your life who you trust for advice. Preferably a little older and wiser than you, who have some better perspective on longevity of marriage. Tread carefully in turning to your own peers for advice. While they may know you well, all they have to say is 'I don't see it' and you could easily be passing up someone right for you. Frightening thought.rach (con't)http://rach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-43127162318251418942012-03-27T12:08:38.065-04:002012-03-27T12:08:38.065-04:00Totally hear ya on the scary pervasiveness of divo...Totally hear ya on the scary pervasiveness of divorce nowadays....It definitely seems like it's becoming more common to hear about couples who are not only splitting up, but seem to throwing in the towel pretty quickly. That's not to say that one should stay in a marriage that is abusive, but when there are divorces after only several months of marriage it makes you wonder if the couples tried to work out the issues (assuming the issues could be worked out). <br /><br />Concerning the suggestion you made about birth control for the first months-- You wrote, "At the same time, who would want to go to their chuppah, still not feeling sure of the whole shidduch, or with a 'what if' feeling."<br /><br />As a happily married woman, just want to put out there that walking down the aisle isn't about being "sure". Committing to someone is huge, especially when we've had so many rich experiences in our lives that make us who we are. I believe that many of us have an ongoing identity crisis when we are single; the men we meet challenges us to examine our values, perspective, and even observance. That's how we learn a lot about ourselves and get a better sense of who we we are looking for. <br /><br />The elasticity we had while dating led us to getting to know different kinds of guys, with different eventual lifestyles if we would have married them. Once we commit, that elasticity is no longer necessary and it takes some time for the brain to catch up to that and settle down. Essentially, the ideal guy is someone you are content with, but at the same time you are always want to grow with them. Sounds paradoxical, but it's a beautiful aspect of marriage.rachhttp://rach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-44211127568446480042012-03-27T11:19:49.912-04:002012-03-27T11:19:49.912-04:00Wow, that is scary stuff.Wow, that is scary stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-62249389960147680642012-03-27T10:56:00.986-04:002012-03-27T10:56:00.986-04:00By the way, just to clarify your statistics:
Whil...By the way, just to clarify your statistics: <br />While divorce was on the rise in the frum community, it was going from almost nothing to about 10% and is pretty stable there for the meantime. However, in the secular world, it is hovering around 50% (54% in NY state). <br />Why the rise in the frum world? Several reasons have been cited:<br />- it is more acceptable in the secular world so it seeps into our world.<br />- we are part of a disposable generation. <br />- people are not as mentally stable in our community (and we don't address psychiatric issues at all). <br />- we lie<br /><br />Sometimes, divorce is the best option. It is not all terrible and depressing- sometimes it is liberating, especially when there is abuse involved. I do not promote divorce, but have seen it be just better for all involved (so long as the children are kept out of the fighting). <br />While one needs to be sure of their spouse, one never knows until they are married what someone is truly like. However, dating for longer periods of time will give you better idea of if you have to be really worried about their mental health ect.<br /><br />-Marriage CounselorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7959111291997881512.post-65215824540686547402012-03-27T00:46:23.911-04:002012-03-27T00:46:23.911-04:00easiest way to solve this problem. Take the potent...easiest way to solve this problem. Take the potential spouse to a therapist for screening. that's what i did. And don't take no for an answer. You have a right to be worried.Devorah Leah Leopoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01082516151481003340noreply@blogger.com